www.amxf.viviti.com

为北京的AMXF提供认识的机会;A place to connect Chinese male and non-Asian female @ Beijing

2. Chinese's thoughts towards the "我爱你(I love you)" expression

A question is raised by the reader after reading an interesting article : "Do westerners say this(I love you) more easily than Chinese? Do Chinese find love soo serious, they wanna spare it for special people and special moments? Does this change in the younger generation, because they are influenced by western movies and music, in which "I love you" is said a lot of times?"

I enclosed the article at the ending of this post and here is my thoughts:

Yes, Chinese don't say "I love you" much.

I haven't socilize with european people that much, but from my experience with Americans, yes, they say "我爱你(I love you)" more easily than Chinese.  When Americans say I love you, it actually means "I like you, I am happy when I am with you, etc" , well, it also could be serious depends on the conversation context. Chinese people take it seriously and rarly say it in front of people, when they say "我爱你" , they must mean that they want a committed relationship, and for many Chinese they even won't say it to their signifciant other, action is more loud than words in our mind.  I even never said 我爱你 to my parents, it is that I or we Chinese are just not used to say it a lot. I guess if I called my mom saying:"我爱你", my mom will jump to a fly to Beijing to see me and thinking that I am mentally-shocked from a incident.

At the beginning of my social life in an America college, A cute girl said that to me when we were hangout at the porch of her house,  I still remember her words :  [My name], it doesn't mean anything, but I love you.   I was confused: she said she love me, and wait..... she also said it doesn't mean anything.  With my Asian mindset, I interpret these as : She love me (because when we chinese said I love you, they mean it),  but she is shy and want to be less upfront,  so the "it doesn't mean anything" is only a cover.  See, that is where all the misunderstanding from, and there are many misunderstandings happened during my interact/relationship with non-Asian girls.

 Chinese are more likely to say ‘I love you’ in English or other foreign languages than they would in their mother tongue

It is still hard for me to say "我爱你(I love you)" in Chinese ,  but saying it English is much nature.  I believe that language itself can influence people's behavial. 

When I am thinking in Chinese , when in situation A, I will choose method X to solve it.

When I am thinking in other language like English, when in situation A, I will choose method Y to solve it.

So when a Chinese couple have the feeling at the moment,  in most case, the "I love you" expression will be carried by English(If they think it in Chinese, they will subsciously decide not to say it out).

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Why the Chinese don't say "I love you"  

 Features
Wednesday, 04 February 2009 08:02
Written by Urbanatomy
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The Chinese are supposedly prudish about sex, but you can still purchase a 12-inch vibrator at your local supermarket checkout. Meanwhile, the government has recently cracked down on online pornography, warning Google and Baidu they must do more to clean out the smut from their online houses. So, while you can pick up a dildo with your meat and veg, they don’t want you to get off online. Clearly, we’re not in Kansas anymore…

But we’re not here to talk about sex. We’re here to talk about its occasional and often-neglected handmaiden: love.

The Chinese are supposedly prudish about that, too. Shanghai Love Education Institute founders Ni Meiqi and Dong Xingmao say Chinese love is “like a thermos – cold outside but hot inside.” Western lovers (particularly those of the American variety), they claim, say “I love you” far too much, and what’s worse, “they don’t actually mean it all the time.”

So while some Westerners tend to overuse “I love you,” those three little words (or rather, their Chinese equivalent, “Wo ai ni”) just don’t seem to roll off the tongues of Chinese lovers so nearly as readily. Between parent and child, yes; but between man and woman, well, Chinese people seem to subscribe to the notion that some things are best left unsaid.

Why the Chinese don’t say ”I love you”

Yan Wenhua, professor of psychology at Shanghai’s East China Normal University, says part of the answer lies in the difference between ‘high context’ and ‘low context’ cultures.

High context cultures (for example, Chinese and other East Asian cultures), have a strong sense of tradition and history, and change little over time; while low context cultures (for example, American culture) change dramatically from one generation to the next.

People from high context cultures don’t say things clearly or specifically, but instead derive meaning from the context – what you might call ‘reading between the lines.’ In low context cultures, people generally say what they mean.
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“Chinese culture is like this,” says Prof. Yan. “I tell you everything around the center. So you must know what I mean. From all the information I give you, you should know; you cannot miss it.’”

In the high context Chinese culture, actions speak louder than words, especially when it comes to love.
“To the Chinese mind, if I do all these things for you, then you should know I love you,” explains Prof. Yan.

Prof. Yan says modern Chinese are more likely to say ‘I love you’ in English or other foreign languages than they would in their mother tongue.

“If Chinese say ‘I love you’ in English, it’s like touching someone’s arm who is wearing a coat. If they say it in Chinese it’s like touching the skin, it’s very sensitive. ‘Wo ai ni’ is very specific. It means responsibility, commitment, loyalty, if you say it.”

“In Chinese people’s eyes, if I say ‘I love you’ too often, that is, use a high context way to say it, then maybe you don’t really love me because you say it so much,” says Prof. Yan.

According to Prof. Yan, Chinese culture has devised other ways to express adult love. “Instead of saying ‘Wo ai ni,’ Chinese people are more likely to express the same meaning in a different way. They might say, ‘If I have a next life, then I would like to be your husband or wife.’”

“We Chinese also have a saying: ‘Xin you ling xi yi dian tong,’ which means we have common points beyond language. Even if we don’t speak, you can sense what I sense; you can feel what I feel.”

About face

The other part of the reason why Chinese people don’t say “Wo ai ni” lies in the concept of ‘face.’

“Chinese people don’t want to lose face or let others lose face,” says Prof. Yan. “If I say, ‘I love you,’ and it isn’t reciprocated then that’s a loss of face. So Chinese people use subtler ways to express their love in order to save face.”

James Farrer, Associate Professor of Sociology at Tokyo’s Sophia University, and author of 2002’s Opening Up: Youth Sex Culture and Market Reform in Shanghai, agrees with the saving-face hypothesis.

“George Simmel [the 18th-century German sociologist], said Eros is always about revealing and hiding, revealing and hiding,” says Prof. Farrer. “In any culture there’s this element of showing something and keeping something back. It’s a way of self-protection.”

“In Chinese culture, to say ‘I love you’ is too touchy, too creepy; it opens one up too much. So people find other ways rather than say it directly,” adds Prof. Farrer.

“In Shanghainese, it’s ‘Wo huan xi nong’ (I like you), or in Mandarin ‘Wo xihuan ni.’ The Japanese say ‘Suki de’ (I like you). ‘Like’ is a way of expressing affection; it’s playful, not so serious.”

Why so serious?

Sharon Lui, a marriage and family therapist at Community Center Shanghai, says not saying ‘I love you’ can sometimes cause problems in Chinese relationships.

“I have one case where the husband never said ‘I love you’ until his wife said ‘I want to leave you,’” says Liu, who counsels both Western and Chinese couples with rocky marriages.

“‘Wo ai ni’ is really difficult for Chinese to say,” says Liu, “because essentially the phrase means a solid commitment.”

“In the Chinese culture we don’t really have ‘casual dating.’ We’re either boyfriend and girlfriend, or just friends. We don’t have this Western dating concept where two people go out on a date that doesn’t really mean anything.”

Liu says Chinese also look at love, or passionate, intimate relationships in a much more functional way than Westerners.

“Chinese get married because they need to have children, or because of societal or parental pressure. They ‘fall in love’ because it’s the social norm. It’s more functional then feeling oriented.”

But times are changing. “The younger generation are more open to the dating concept, or what the Americans call ‘seeing each other,’” says Liu. “But in the last generation they don’t have that. Saying ‘I love you’ is pretty much like saying ‘I want to marry you.’”

Story from an European woman( TBC)

Thanks for the submission

 

Part 1

I am an European woman, A few years ago I came to Beijing to learn the chinese language and find out more about the situation in this interesting country. Since then nearly every year I spend my summer vacation here. My first Chinese relationship was my former boyfriend. I met him at a Heavy-Metal-concert in a musicclub, where I went on my own. He had just graduated from university and was celebrating with some friends. He used the break between two bands to introduce himself to me. That night we exchanged phone-numbers, kissed, he accompanied me to my place. The next day we had our first real date... Ironically (I say ironically, because a short time before that, I had found out, my boyfriend had married a chinese girl) nearly the same thing happened to me this year in my first week in Beijing. During a rockconcert a university-student introduced himself to me, later accompanied me to my place, we kissed... nothing else happened.

 

 Part 2

 About differences and problems I use my limited personal experiences as background-information to write this. In NO WAY I wanna generalize on the basis of ethnic origin. Everybody is individual, with one's own personality and character. But surely the culture, in which we were brought up, influences our pattern of behaviour, way of thinking, our wishes and expectations. When dating for the first time, there are very few difference between Western and Eastern guys. The first impression is always the outside of someone. That makes me decide, if I wanna go any further: Do I like his face, body, smile, voice and so on. Surely my dating partners did exactly the same, by checking my physical attraction. Then the usual small-talk: What is your job, what do you like to do, why did you come to China, and so on. A high percentage of my chinese dates talked quite much about their businesses and carreer, trying to avoid any topics, that could lead to real discussion. I would like to know more about their personal aspirations, or what they think about the situation in China in general. When the relationship developes, differences between European and Chinese guys can be seen more clearly. Especially problematic I found the difference in the way to communicate about disagreements and problems. Europeans (North-Europeans, I am not sure about South-Europeans) prefer to express their opinion or criticism in a clear and direct way, even if its unpolite or hurts the other. Many Chinese prefer to say things in a way, that will make the the other one feel good. My chinese ex-boyfriend is exactly this way. And hey! Hearing those charming things DID make me feel good, even though I knew with my mind, that it sounded far too good (一辈子我要爱你) to be true. On the other hand, I never was quite sure, if the things he said were exactly the way he thought or felt, or if he said so, because I wanted to hear them. I believe, that the truth should be told, even if the truth is hard, worrying, inconvenient and makes me unhappy. Problems should be talked about directly, without delay. My ex-bf did not mention difficult or controversial issues as long as possible. And when he had to, he did it in the most comforting, most gentle and indirect way as possible. For example: When he told me, he still loves me, but also loves his newlywed wife, I understood it exactly as he told me. When I found out, that as a matter of fact he did not love me anymore, I thought his former "I still love you" was lying or pretending. Now I understand, he wanted to say good-bye without hurting me. But he did it a way, I am not used to and therefore could not understand.

 

Part 3, the final part, will be about what I have learned out of all that and if I can give any advice. (One advice to Chinese guys I can give right now: Western women can carry their own bags and prefer to do so, you dont have to carry.)

 

TBC

Why we need a network to bring AMXF together

根据我的经验和观察,  亚洲男孩和非亚洲女孩在一起的情况非常少见,我总结了一些原因,我将会在BLOG里面逐渐写出来,同时,我也希望大家能够把自己的想法和经历写出来。 我知道对于大多数的亚洲男孩和非亚洲的女孩,彼此之间有很多误会的地方,但是很少能够有一个地方能互相沟通彼此的想法,那么这就是你可以说出来的地方。

我相信很多亚洲男孩认为西方女孩不喜欢他们,同样,也有很多西方女孩认为亚洲男孩不喜欢他们,同时在感情方面,亚洲男孩和西方女孩都不是主动的角色。 没有人喜欢被拒绝,这样的话双方就很少有人去主动冒着被拒绝的风险来约会对方,这样的话AMXF(亚洲男孩和非亚洲的女孩)的关系自然很难形成。

但是在这里都是喜欢亚洲男孩的女孩;喜欢外国女孩的男孩。我很好奇在北京,到底有多少这样的亚洲男孩和西方女孩的存在,如果你是其中一员的话,千万请写信告诉我。

 

 

Based on my experience and observation,  there are many factors made the occorence of AMXF are not as common as the other way around. Hence I will invite/encourage everyone to write down your thoughts and experience on this. I believe there are many misunderstanding unspoken between Chinese males and Western females, Here I am going to discuss about it. 

 

 I believe a lot of Asian men feel as though non-Asian women don't like them. It goes the same way for a lot of non-Asian females, who assume that Asian guys don't like them.  Nobody likes to get shut down, especially because of their race. Plus, Asian girl are more active and tend to make the first move in a relationship, which is opposed to the way western girls act, and asian guys are passive in a relationship, which made AMXF relationship is hard to start.

 Asian guy(shy/passive)Asian girl(active)
Western guy(active) Gay Most likely happen
Western girl(shy/passive)Hard to happenLesibon

  But here is a safe place that guarantees that the ppl  here are interested in getting to know each other. I am not sure how many/rare AMXF members are at beijing, write to me if you are one of us.

A comparison of East/West relationship pattern

Here is an explanation on why Asian male are passive on relationship.  I did my undergraduate study at a China University and did my graduate school at a University in States. Chinese college guys don't talk girls that much and just spend their time either on studying or sports, or hangout in their dorms, There are much less social event like bars and parties as in US. Chinese guys just don't acquaint with many females. Most of the time, Chinese college guys get to know girls either from Class(class are comprised by exactly the same people  for the whole college year in most case ). Which I want to say is , Chinese guys are just least experienced on a relationship, many couples get to know each other because of class, school club, or workmate after graduation.

How many WF actually open/into Asian male @ Beijing?

I don't know how many percent of them are open towards Chinese guy, but I would like to say there is a  significant number. Sometimes when I hangout with my friends at club like vics or mix(two of my favorate), I will  hit on WF to see how will they response and have dinner in the next few days( I actully don't care much how will they see me, it doesn't matter that they are open/into Chinese guy or not, I just wish they can realized that there ARE Chinese guys like to hangout with them, and maybe they will tell their friends afterwards and get the words across....), I would like to say over half of the female are open to a conversation and 1/4 of them are willing to develop a relationship.